From joe at begriffs.com Fri Jan 3 17:22:51 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 11:22:51 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th Message-ID: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th 2854 Columbus Ave S. Please reply if you can make it. Hopefully we can finish that relay project for our buildfarm, among other things... From j3s at c3f.net Fri Jan 3 20:06:32 2020 From: j3s at c3f.net (j3s) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 14:06:32 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> Message-ID: I?ll plan on being there. From prenticedarren at gmail.com Sat Jan 4 00:59:34 2020 From: prenticedarren at gmail.com (Darren Prentice) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 18:59:34 -0600 Subject: Pair lair at the hack shack In-Reply-To: <20191211233857.GH89628@begriffs.com> References: <20191211233857.GH89628@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <5AC8E352-E592-4223-9278-209CB03BA7C7@gmail.com> Sounds cool. I?m USB-C only. But I keep an HDMI adapter in my bag. For pairing, you're thinking 1 monitor References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200104200545.GA19977@19a6.tech> On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 11:22:51AM -0600, Joe Nelson wrote: > 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th > 2854 Columbus Ave S. I plan to be there! From joe at begriffs.com Tue Jan 7 17:16:36 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:16:36 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> > 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th > 2854 Columbus Ave S. I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) From nicholasdrozd at gmail.com Tue Jan 7 17:22:49 2020 From: nicholasdrozd at gmail.com (Nicholas Drozd) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:22:49 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: That other group meets in Golden Valley, so I wouldn't go to it anyway. I'm in for Thursday. From dklann at grunch.org Tue Jan 7 17:24:34 2020 From: dklann at grunch.org (David Klann) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 11:24:34 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: Arrgh. Too many cool things going on ! And I cannot make the meeting this week on the 9th. Next week Thursday might be tough too. A different night? If you all choose Thursday the 16th I'll make every effort to be there. Would love to finish up the Pi-powered AC switch project... ~David Klann On Tue, 2020-01-07 at 11:16 -0600, Joe Nelson wrote: > > 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th > > 2854 Columbus Ave S. > > I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night > https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ > > Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we > haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) From joe at begriffs.com Tue Jan 7 17:35:40 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:35:40 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200107173540.ye73eioinxci4pdw@begriffs.com> Nicholas Drozd wrote: > That other group meets in Golden Valley, so I wouldn't go to it > anyway. Yeah, it's way out there, not sure why they didn't make it more central. Perhaps I should reach out to them about doing a joint meetup with us in the future at Tristan's place... > I'm in for Thursday. Alright let's do this! From j3s at c3f.net Tue Jan 7 17:41:12 2020 From: j3s at c3f.net (j3s) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:41:12 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> References: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <2FC77286-344A-4A2F-A439-6EF516BD19B0@c3f.net> > I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night > https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ > > Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we > haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) I believe that this event also conflicts with the DC612 meetup, which I know several members of Cyberia will be attending. Just an FYI. From dave at 19a6.net Tue Jan 7 18:06:02 2020 From: dave at 19a6.net (Dave Bucklin) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:06:02 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: On January 7, 2020 11:16:36 AM CST, Joe Nelson wrote: >> 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th >> 2854 Columbus Ave S. > >I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night >https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ > >Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we >haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) I've been to that meetup a few times. It's more of a discussion group. There are no laptops on the table. I wouldn't reschedule at this point, but we should invite them to future meetings. From remexre at protonmail.com Tue Jan 7 19:02:34 2020 From: remexre at protonmail.com (remexre) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 19:02:34 +0000 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: References: <20200103172251.ed3cc44bdsc5ej4w@begriffs.com> <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> Message-ID: Louis and I plan to attend; we'll also be bringing another person (Hemant). Thanks, Nathan ??????? Original Message ??????? On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 12:06 PM, Dave Bucklin wrote: > > > On January 7, 2020 11:16:36 AM CST, Joe Nelsonjoe at begriffs.com wrote: > > > > 6:00, Thursday, Jan 9th > > > 2854 Columbus Ave S. > > > > I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night > > https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ > > Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we > > haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) > > I've been to that meetup a few times. It's more of a discussion group. There are no laptops on the table. I wouldn't reschedule at this point, but we should invite them to future meetings. From june at causal.agency Tue Jan 7 21:28:33 2020 From: june at causal.agency (June Bug) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:28:33 -0500 Subject: imbox & git-fetch-email Message-ID: Hi all. Sharing a little project I worked on around Christmas. I?ve been pretty excited about moving to doing git collaboration over email, but I was disappointed with part of the workflow: to apply patches you?re expected to either have local mail, a client that can export mbox files, or some way to retrieve them from a mailing list software. This doesn?t really fit with how I use email, and I still haven?t found a mail client that I?m totally satisfied with. But I started thinking, git-send-email makes it super easy to send off patches without involving your regular mail client, why can?t the same be true for applying patches? So I wrote imbox, which is a tiny IMAP client which exports messages matching a search in mbox format, ready to be piped straight into git-am. It was really interesting to learn how IMAP works and I have some new software ideas relating to it. Along with that I wrote a git-fetch-email command which integrates imbox with git-config and git-credential in a way that mirrors git-send-email. I?ve used this to apply a couple of patches on my own projects, but it hasn?t been widely tested. I?m curious if anyone is interested in using it or has any ideas for improvements. The project is at and of course feel free to mail me patches ;) From j3s at c3f.net Tue Jan 7 22:25:12 2020 From: j3s at c3f.net (j3s) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:25:12 -0600 Subject: imbox & git-fetch-email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue Jan 7, 2020 at 4:28 PM, June Bug wrote: > Hi all. Sharing a little project I worked on around Christmas. > > > I?ve been pretty excited about moving to doing git collaboration > over email, but I was disappointed with part of the workflow: to > apply patches you?re expected to either have local mail, a client > that can export mbox files, or some way to retrieve them from a > mailing list software. This doesn?t really fit with how I use email, > and I still haven?t found a mail client that I?m totally satisfied > with. But I started thinking, git-send-email makes it super easy > to send off patches without involving your regular mail client, why > can?t the same be true for applying patches? > > > So I wrote imbox, which is a tiny IMAP client which exports messages > matching a search in mbox format, ready to be piped straight into > git-am. It was really interesting to learn how IMAP works and I > have some new software ideas relating to it. Along with that I wrote > a git-fetch-email command which integrates imbox with git-config > and git-credential in a way that mirrors git-send-email. > > > I?ve used this to apply a couple of patches on my own projects, but > it hasn?t been widely tested. I?m curious if anyone is interested > in using it or has any ideas for improvements. > > > The project is at and of > course feel free to mail me patches ;) > hi june bug, first, congrats on the new git repository, I saw that you were using Gitea previously and migrated to cgit - excellent choice on the styling too. it looks super nice. second, I'm reasonably interested in this, since I use a few different mail-centric workflows. I've been using aerc (https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/aerc) for awhile, and it has proven wildly unstable for me - nice when it works, and hopefully it turns into my preferred mail client. Mutt does a good enough job generally though. I'll definitely give it a shot and offer some feedback when I get a chance. Thanks for sharing! j3s From noelmiller at protonmail.com Wed Jan 8 20:10:45 2020 From: noelmiller at protonmail.com (Noel Miller) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:10:45 +0000 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: References: <09231e5f-b3ca-b35c-3f11-3959c41b6563@protonmail.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I plan on attending. This will be my first meeting, but I'm curious about the group. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wsBcBAEBCAAGBQJeFjc1AAoJEHwdlHMWD0ICjxMIAK/JREy2eYeKpZVrDzBc FKNdqgV96yTltS8BLRyH1zoNiUs6bXAlN/VNxaelzhnfS/R0SybRgowRSu6W hU/lPHOYoR0/aCOAdrBoGvTxHlfDSuZM5qgVtVjL+DZKFvPl/NZwMp4dAEnH 9Lt8ri9d7bkSXzBC8XjJ4tJw+Yz4lpZ4ZTDqLZTahE9FPvH3CUbMa51/4t+Y ZY+vUHcYFyHAwcHyOfxHVLyJbGKilr2oBP5Zv1KR4Z196NtEyZmK+NBAjXq5 bmkei3U6ao5On3Lz+QCiTT1N9LROvHekzekTvZ43rlWJb28ECqA9JjZXsC84 mDSUSuOod9o1w3GxWN8PNaM= =aVRu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joe at begriffs.com Thu Jan 9 00:11:16 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:11:16 -0600 Subject: imbox & git-fetch-email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200109001116.bp6dcy5cq5bcxa42@begriffs.com> June Bug wrote: > So I wrote imbox, which is a tiny IMAP client which exports messages > matching a search in mbox format, ready to be piped straight into > git-am. It was really interesting to learn how IMAP works and I > have some new software ideas relating to it. Along with that I wrote > a git-fetch-email command which integrates imbox with git-config > and git-credential in a way that mirrors git-send-email. Very cool idea. Just for perspective on workflow, I do things a little differently. I synchronize IMAP to a local copy in Maildir format using isync [0]. Each message lives on my computer as its own regular file. I point Mutt at this local copy so that I can work offline. You can search Maildir using programs such as mairix [1] or mu [2]. These programs create an index so searches go fast. Probably faster than calling out over IMAP, and it works offline. > I?m curious if anyone is interested in using it or has any ideas for > improvements. I'd love to give it a try. Can you walk me through how to use it? For instance I can clone the imbox project itself, and you could email me a demonstration patch and show me how to use to the tool to find the message, turn it into an mbox file, and apply the patch. After trying imbox, I can see how to accomplish the task with the Maildir approach, and see which feels easier. 0: http://isync.sourceforge.net/ 1: http://www.rpcurnow.force9.co.uk/mairix/ 2: http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/ From joe at begriffs.com Thu Jan 9 00:16:36 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:16:36 -0600 Subject: Pair lair at the hack shack In-Reply-To: <5AC8E352-E592-4223-9278-209CB03BA7C7@gmail.com> References: <20191211233857.GH89628@begriffs.com> <5AC8E352-E592-4223-9278-209CB03BA7C7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20200109001636.xmdrkfu7jykdkfvn@begriffs.com> Darren Prentice wrote: > For pairing, you're thinking 1 monitor right? Yeah, that's what I had in mind. People could use their own laptops, but have a decent monitor and keyboards ready to go. > My ultimate fantasy setup would be a giant tv or projector in front of > a big couch. Good for others spectating and keeping my nearsightedness > damage at bay. I think there's already a projector at the warehouse, and Savannah was talking about hanging it from the ceiling to point at the back wall by the parking lot. Love the idea of having spectators. Group coding is like a whole different format from presentations. From joe at begriffs.com Thu Jan 9 00:22:21 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:22:21 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: References: <09231e5f-b3ca-b35c-3f11-3959c41b6563@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <20200109002221.gmxsa55ypswrbhxn@begriffs.com> > I plan on attending. This will be my first meeting, but I'm curious > about the group. Welcome! Can you introduce yourself and talk about your interests for the benefit of people on the list who can't make the meeting? From noelmiller at protonmail.com Thu Jan 9 02:09:12 2020 From: noelmiller at protonmail.com (Noel Miller) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 02:09:12 +0000 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <20200109002221.gmxsa55ypswrbhxn@begriffs.com> References: <09231e5f-b3ca-b35c-3f11-3959c41b6563@protonmail.com> <20200109002221.gmxsa55ypswrbhxn@begriffs.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Greetings! My name is Noel Miller. I am also part of the Penguins Unbound meetup group if anyone attends that. I am 28 years old and work at a Fortune 500 company doing Linux Cloud Engineering. I have been using Linux since Ubuntu 12.04 (my first distro). I really like the openness that Linux provides and the community surrounding it. I run RHEL 8.1 (developer license) on my laptop and desktop. I run Fedora 30 on my server (hope to update to 31 soon). I am currently preparing for my RHCSA, that is why I am running RHEL on all things. I am looking forward to having another meetup with people interested in the open source and desktop side of Linux. I am also interested in becoming more proficient at programming as my background is more Sysadmin oriented. Looking forward to meeting everyone! (This is also the first mailing list I've been on, so go easy on me :) ) Thanks, Noel Miller Sent from ProtonMail mobile \-------- Original Message -------- On Jan 8, 2020, 6:22 PM, Joe Nelson < joe at begriffs.com> wrote: > I plan on attending. This will be my first meeting, but I'm curious > about the group. Welcome! Can you introduce yourself and talk about your interests for the benefit of people on the list who can't make the meeting? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wsBmBAEBCAAQBQJeFotHCRB8HZRzFg9CAgAKCRB8HZRzFg9CAuK3CACGlMq6 2aArPD36zKtvyi8JAhrddfr5TkmcPdG6zd6ZxcoVUfJyRDsyBTeyTsx7QW4r eEt++60TKvbO1CxoN1ZE8KyBfDLVioIX0qu/jFCWYimXYxup8IXS/yNEPe78 o74ll70VN9lgSWBrLJ0AMzOoN6XSK88eYWfPPeW4+3oIclDI9fXRpNrhg3jP qNjfrxhK5tiDHqiAbQKTRj6CvlWbJQxFwIKxkAGqDtmnwUNPucgshjGNxNnw l0SurSUAJnzX8LD6szaa0d5jV1Cw3AWI5w0jE3jW0IbFgF0zn3vHie2Vlo1R ZiWcGH+8kvO8p8c50ezdDH2HSuTUvA7E58J1 =XoPk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave at 19a6.net Thu Jan 9 13:19:09 2020 From: dave at 19a6.net (Dave Bucklin) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 07:19:09 -0600 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: References: <09231e5f-b3ca-b35c-3f11-3959c41b6563@protonmail.com> <20200109002221.gmxsa55ypswrbhxn@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200109131909.GC4496@19a6.tech> Welcome Noel. Thanks for joining! From forest.n.johnson at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 22:41:13 2020 From: forest.n.johnson at gmail.com (Forest Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:41:13 -0600 Subject: Hello Message-ID: Hi, I am a new member on this mailing list and I plan on coming to the meeting tonight! I've been a software guy professionally for 13 years, almost half of my life. I recently quit my job as a "DevOps" guy at an IoT company so that I could work on open source software full time. I have some plans for projects I want to work on now that I have a lot of free time, mostly focused on making it easier for non-technical people to interact with open source software and run servers themselves. I'm joining this group because I want to get in touch with the local software community outside of the professional/corporate world. I'm looking forward to meeting you all! If you want to read, I host a personal blog, gogs git server, and a couple of simple apps at https://sequentialread.com/ Forest From Kurtis at riseup.net Thu Jan 9 22:44:00 2020 From: Kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:44:00 +0000 Subject: Next meeting Thursday the 9th In-Reply-To: <2FC77286-344A-4A2F-A439-6EF516BD19B0@c3f.net> References: <20200107171636.kxqqo5itzv4wzn7h@begriffs.com> <2FC77286-344A-4A2F-A439-6EF516BD19B0@c3f.net> Message-ID: Sorry for not RSVPing earlier, but I'm planning on attending tonight. My roommate sounds like he might join me as well. j3s: > >> I just learned that this conflicts with another hack night >> https://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-bDiyYmvj/events/267583832/ >> >> Perhaps we should reschedule our event to accommodate them. (Also we >> haven't got many RSVPs as it is.) > > I believe that this event also conflicts with the DC612 meetup, which I know several members of Cyberia will be attending. Just an FYI. > From Kurtis at riseup.net Tue Jan 14 18:47:00 2020 From: Kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:47:00 +0000 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! In-Reply-To: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> Message-ID: <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> Hello folks, Last month I threw out the idea on the Hardcore Hack Night email list related to Cyberia and HHN throwing an Unconference / BarCamp event of some sort. https://talk.begriffs.com/pipermail/friends/2019-December/000840.html Since events like these aren't extremely common, it seems to make sense for us to attend one of these events as a group in order to get the vibe on how it is done. Welp, the one local yearly tech related BarCamp that I know of just sent me an email saying that you can now sign up as a presenter, and that the event will be held at Best Buy HQ in South Richfield on April 25th. Here's the event's website: https://minnestar.org/minnebar/ The structure of this is participant-led and user generated, so to get the true experience, you should consider submitting a talk. If enough of us submit talks, we could try to request that our talks are all held in the same room and/or don't conflict with one another on the schedule, effectively making a "track" at the unconference. Also, if we have a number of us doing talks, we could likely help one another prepare for the event by constructively reviewing one another's presentations. Additionally, it looks like we can have a free table at the event to promote our groups. Lastly, since the event has a lot of corporate sponsors, everything is free as in beer, including the free beer after the event, the ticket, the coffee, and food from some awesome food trucks. In Solidarity, Kurtis -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Minnebar Session Sign Up, Ticket Info & More! Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:29:25 +0000 From: Minnestar Reply-To: Minnestar To: kurtis at riseup.net ** Session Submission is Open! ------------------------------------------------------------ It's that time of year! Session submission for Minnebar15 is officially open. 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We are a non-profit and get by with the support of our community. That?s not just sponsors and donors; as our events grow we need more and more volunteers to make it all happen. There's still time and need for volunteers (https://minnestar.org/community/volunteer/) . ============================================================ ** view this email in your browser (https://mailchi.mp/minnestar/minnebar-session-sign-up-ticket-info-more) Copyright ? 2020 Minnestar, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you signed up for the Minne* mailing list or you've attended one of our events. Our mailing address is: Minnestar 2186 Mailand Rd. E. St. Paul, MN 55119 USA From joe at begriffs.com Sat Jan 18 22:21:27 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:21:27 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Kurtis Hanna wrote: > https://minnestar.org/minnebar/ Thanks for the suggestion. Might be a nice way to meet new future members of the group too. Speaking of giving talks, what would people think about adding some lightning talks to our regular meetups? Could have two or three 5-minute talks and then carry on with our usual hanging out. My original idea was that the hacknight would be strictly a hands-on thing, but throwing in some talks could help stir up new ideas. Here are some suggestions of talks y'all could give: * Nick: a dramatic reading of Dear Charlotte * Erik: welcome to my editor OS * Dave: controlling cats through email * Paul: hello robot arm world * Chuck: look ma, no heap * Jes: the agony and the ecstasy of smtp * Darren: 5.1 surround code * Sam: kickin it in the velocipede * Kurt: tinfoil hats for laptops * Peter: spoofing caller id (0118 999 881 999 119 7253) * Chris M: chaotic evil memory alignment * Tim: TCP/IP through a straw * Louis: typing like a ???? I can make fairly high-quality recordings of your talks as well. What's the status of the projector at the warehouse? Is it all set up? From joe at begriffs.com Sun Jan 19 01:09:47 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:09:47 -0600 Subject: Floating point reading group Message-ID: <20200119010947.GB34090@begriffs.com> I'm approaching the end of my current studies (pthreads), and moving on to the next topic. It's going to be the IEEE 754 floating point standard, and I ordered this book: https://www.amazon.com/Numerical-Computing-Floating-Point-Arithmetic/dp/0898715717 Anyone in the friends list interested in forming a study group to read it and do the exercises? For the pace, I'm thinking twice a week with either remote or in-person pair programming. From bavier at posteo.net Sun Jan 19 01:25:16 2020 From: bavier at posteo.net (Eric Bavier) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:25:16 -0600 Subject: Floating point reading group In-Reply-To: <20200119010947.GB34090@begriffs.com> References: <20200119010947.GB34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: On 18.01.2020 19:09, Joe Nelson wrote: > I'm approaching the end of my current studies (pthreads), and moving on > to the next topic. It's going to be the IEEE 754 floating point > standard, and I ordered this book: > > https://www.amazon.com/Numerical-Computing-Floating-Point-Arithmetic/dp/0898715717 > > Anyone in the friends list interested in forming a study group to read > it and do the exercises? For the pace, I'm thinking twice a week with > either remote or in-person pair programming. This would probably be useful for me at $dayjob, so I'm interested. -- `~Eric From dave at 19a6.net Mon Jan 20 18:18:13 2020 From: dave at 19a6.net (Dave Bucklin) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:18:13 -0600 Subject: Learn BHCS Message-ID: <65F5B010-BEBA-4E12-A1EB-E50E99660D76@19a6.net> https://learnbchs.org/easy.html That's BSD, C, httpd, and SQLite. Brought to you by none other than Kristaps Dzonsons, along with a ton of other stuff you've probably heard of: https://github.com/kristapsdz/ The frostbyte server would be a good place to set this up. From louis at goessling.com Mon Jan 20 19:17:27 2020 From: louis at goessling.com (Louis) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:17:27 -0600 Subject: Another World deep-dive Message-ID: Hi All, I found this < https://fabiensanglard.net/another_world_polygons/ > series of articles about the development and porting of Another World across a wide variety of 'early days' computer hardware. If you haven't come across it already, it's an interesting read and totally 'hardcore hacking.' Makes me want to figure out how to get a toolchain onto my Macintosh Plus and start writing m68k demos. Yours, Louis Goessling From joe at begriffs.com Mon Jan 20 20:12:42 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:12:42 -0600 Subject: Floating point reading group In-Reply-To: References: <20200119010947.GB34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200120201242.us4lpyeobenvpsl3@begriffs.com> > > IEEE 754 floating point > This would probably be useful for me at $dayjob, so I'm interested. Great, let me know when your copy of the book arrives and when you're ready to start. By the way, how does it relate to your job? From joe at begriffs.com Mon Jan 20 20:20:37 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:20:37 -0600 Subject: Learn BHCS In-Reply-To: <65F5B010-BEBA-4E12-A1EB-E50E99660D76@19a6.net> References: <65F5B010-BEBA-4E12-A1EB-E50E99660D76@19a6.net> Message-ID: <20200120202037.fruzoudlu3xod4ye@begriffs.com> Dave Bucklin wrote: > https://learnbchs.org/easy.html > > That's BSD, C, httpd, and SQLite. I'd be down to pair on this with you at one of the meetups. For instance, I'd like to make a simple image gallery on our site for pictures of previous meetups. Probably doesn't even need sqlite, since we can get all the data from the filesystem. Although the current webserver can probably automatically provide a directory listing, this project gives us an opportunity to make something meaningful. It could automatically arrange the images into groups according to date. From bavier at posteo.net Tue Jan 21 04:16:07 2020 From: bavier at posteo.net (Eric Bavier) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 22:16:07 -0600 Subject: Floating point reading group In-Reply-To: <20200120201242.us4lpyeobenvpsl3@begriffs.com> References: <20200119010947.GB34090@begriffs.com> <20200120201242.us4lpyeobenvpsl3@begriffs.com> Message-ID: On 20.01.2020 14:12, Joe Nelson wrote: >> > IEEE 754 floating point > >> This would probably be useful for me at $dayjob, so I'm interested. > > By the way, how does it relate to your job? I do numerical libraries dev/support for HPC systems at HPE (formerly Cray). I'm trying to do more low-level math kernels development and compiler work. -- `~Eric From nicholasdrozd at gmail.com Tue Jan 21 23:12:58 2020 From: nicholasdrozd at gmail.com (Nicholas Drozd) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:12:58 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: "signed char lotte" could make for a great group discussion. It's simple enough to be accessible for less experienced programmers, but weird enough to be interesting for those with more experience. If you're wondering what we're talking about, it's this, the coolest piece of code ever written: https://www.ioccc.org/1990/westley.c On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 4:21 PM Joe Nelson wrote: > > Here are some suggestions of talks y'all could give: > > * Nick: a dramatic reading of Dear Charlotte > > I can make fairly high-quality recordings of your talks as well. From joe at begriffs.com Fri Jan 24 02:38:57 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 20:38:57 -0600 Subject: Should I use stdint.h types? Message-ID: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> If I'm working in C99 should I use the [u]int{,_least,_fast}N_t types, or continue using the C89 "classic" integer types? My mental model of the classic types is this: char = (none, sign not specified) signed char = int_least8_t int = int_fast16_t short = int_least16_t long = int_fast32_t long long = int_fast64_t (of course long long is itself C99) size_t = (depends on architectural factors) offset_t = (same as size_t but signed) The stdint.h types clearly document intentions, although experienced C programmers are probably aware of the portable range of each classic type. The classic types are prettier, while the new types allow some combinations that weren't expressible before, like int_least32_t. I think I'd avoid the more rigid intN_t types because they don't exist on all machines. Any opinions? From samuel.stuewe at gmail.com Fri Jan 24 03:07:13 2020 From: samuel.stuewe at gmail.com (Sam Stuewe) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 21:07:13 -0600 Subject: Should I use stdint.h types? In-Reply-To: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> References: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <1B13C0B5-1383-454C-A521-294940E54E00@gmail.com> Joe, You should use the type that makes sense for what you want. If, what you want is a signed integer that is between (inclusive) short and long in size, you want an int. If you want/need an integer that is exactly 32 bits large, you want an int32_t. Technically, the older versions are more portable, where the specific versions make requirements more clear. Use the one that matches your intentions and goals. Personally, I think the fast/least variants are incredibly cool and are one of my favorite features missing from newer languages that are trying to be lower-level. All the best, -Sam From drewbenson at netjack.com Fri Jan 24 06:36:58 2020 From: drewbenson at netjack.com (Andrew Benson) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 00:36:58 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: Very cool! Had to switch all the ?1s? to ?1? to make it compile though. I don?t think there?s a C compiler still in existence that accepts that ?s? suffix to indicate a short int. > On Jan 21, 2020, at 5:12 PM, Nicholas Drozd wrote: > > "signed char lotte" could make for a great group discussion. It's > simple enough to be accessible for less experienced programmers, but > weird enough to be interesting for those with more experience. > > If you're wondering what we're talking about, it's this, the coolest > piece of code ever written: > > https://www.ioccc.org/1990/westley.c > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 4:21 PM Joe Nelson wrote: >> >> Here are some suggestions of talks y'all could give: >> >> * Nick: a dramatic reading of Dear Charlotte >> >> I can make fairly high-quality recordings of your talks as well. From joe at begriffs.com Sat Jan 25 03:50:01 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 21:50:01 -0600 Subject: Should I use stdint.h types? In-Reply-To: <1B13C0B5-1383-454C-A521-294940E54E00@gmail.com> References: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> <1B13C0B5-1383-454C-A521-294940E54E00@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20200125035001.ammr4hclhtteqdjn@begriffs.com> > Technically, the older versions are more portable, where the specific > versions make requirements more clear. Use the one that matches your > intentions and goals. The context is that I want to start pulling pieces out of programs I've written and put them into a reusable personal library. I wanted to develop a standardized style for the code, and one question was whether to use the C99 types exclusively or the classic ones. (Also made a typo in my previous email, meant ptrdiff_t rather than offset_t.) From june at causal.agency Sat Jan 25 05:36:05 2020 From: june at causal.agency (June Bug) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 00:36:05 -0500 Subject: Should I use stdint.h types? In-Reply-To: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> References: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 23, 2020, at 21:38, Joe Nelson wrote: > > If I'm working in C99 should I use the [u]int{,_least,_fast}N_t types, > or continue using the C89 "classic" integer types? > > The stdint.h types clearly document intentions, although experienced C > programmers are probably aware of the portable range of each classic > type. The classic types are prettier, while the new types allow some > combinations that weren't expressible before, like int_least32_t. > > I think I'd avoid the more rigid intN_t types because they don't exist > on all machines. > > Any opinions? I generally only use a few types: size_t for sizes/lengths/counts etc., int and unsigned (typedef uint) for general integers where size is unlikely to matter, and unsigned char (typedef byte). It?s not the ?80s or ?90s anymore and unless you?re writing specifically for embedded platforms it?s safe to assume that int is ?big enough?. The _least and _fast variants also don?t seem generally applicable. I?ll usually only use stdint.h types if some algorithm (such as a hash function) or data format (such as PNG) calls for a specific size like uint32_t. From joe at begriffs.com Sat Jan 25 05:49:04 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:49:04 -0600 Subject: Should I use stdint.h types? In-Reply-To: References: <20200124023857.p2nyxa4y72qj3jxa@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200125054904.y4le5asnds4zyt5r@begriffs.com> June Bug wrote: > It?s not the ?80s or ?90s anymore and unless you?re writing > specifically for embedded platforms it?s safe to assume that int is > ?big enough?. Hah, fair enough. The books I read about C portability were from the 80s and 90s, so I think that's where I got the caution from. :) > The _least and _fast variants also don?t seem generally applicable. > I?ll usually only use stdint.h types if some algorithm (such as a > hash function) or data format (such as PNG) calls for a specific > size like uint32_t. The only "danger" is that uint32_t might not exist, while uint_fast32_t is more flexible and can choose a bigger type if it exists. It'll still be big enough. However in reality what platform doesn't have uint32_t, it would have to be very weird. From nicholasdrozd at gmail.com Tue Jan 28 18:25:53 2020 From: nicholasdrozd at gmail.com (Nicholas Drozd) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 12:25:53 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: Do you know for sure that that's what the `s` is? I've seen "short int" mentioned elsewhere, and it's a reasonable guess, but I haven't been able to find any documentation about it. The IOCCC rules from that era stipulate that entries be written in "common C (K&R + common extensions)". What are the "common extensions"? On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:37 AM Andrew Benson wrote: > > Had to switch all the ?1s? to ?1? to make it compile though. I don?t think there?s a C compiler still in existence that accepts that ?s? suffix to indicate a short int. From drewbenson at netjack.com Tue Jan 28 20:45:27 2020 From: drewbenson at netjack.com (Andrew Benson) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:45:27 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <31EF9042-D453-40EA-98C2-E78565BE3EDE@netjack.com> Hi Nicholas, I **THINK** so. I couldn?t find any documentation that said that either ? and I looked at a LOT of old ones, including some old books I had. But when I first saw it, I thought that was it for sure ? I mean that I felt like I remembered that from the past. I think it?s primarily been used in embedded, but there?s no gcc or clang option I can find that makes it accept it (I think I?ve tried all of them). > On Jan 28, 2020, at 12:25 PM, Nicholas Drozd wrote: > > Do you know for sure that that's what the `s` is? I've seen "short > int" mentioned elsewhere, and it's a reasonable guess, but I haven't > been able to find any documentation about it. The IOCCC rules from > that era stipulate that entries be written in "common C (K&R + common > extensions)". What are the "common extensions"? > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:37 AM Andrew Benson wrote: >> >> Had to switch all the ?1s? to ?1? to make it compile though. I don?t think there?s a C compiler still in existence that accepts that ?s? suffix to indicate a short int. From joe at begriffs.com Wed Jan 29 00:40:33 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 18:40:33 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: References: <0f2f5b8fd9523367a18c69383.fe467c1a24.20200114152915.283593f3d3.d5f70ce2@mail168.atl221.rsgsv.net> <945b6f0e-de9c-43a1-448a-ec67e35e9467@riseup.net> <20200118222127.GA34090@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <20200129004033.sjuetofqo5xaluoj@begriffs.com> Nicholas Drozd wrote: > Do you know for sure that that's what the `s` is? In general those are called integer suffixes. The ANSI C89 spec section 6.1.3.2 (integer constants) mentions "u" or "U" to make a constant unsigned, and "l" or "L" to make it long. > The IOCCC rules from that era stipulate that entries be written in > "common C (K&R + common extensions)". What are the "common > extensions"? "K&R C," the standard before ANSI, means the language defined in Appendix A of K&R 1st edition. All I can see in there is the L suffix: 2.4.2 (Explicit long constants) A decimal, octal, or hexadecimal integer constant immediately followed by l (letter ell) or L is a long constant. As discussed below, on some machines integer and long values may be considered identical. The 's' suffix must be from a "common extension." I'm curious if anyone else knows more about those. From drewbenson at netjack.com Thu Jan 30 07:09:34 2020 From: drewbenson at netjack.com (Andrew Benson) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 01:09:34 -0600 Subject: Let's hack Minnebar! [and lightning talks in general] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I talked to a friend I went to college with, and he was also very sure that it meant ?short?, though he looked for awhile also and could not find any documentation that proved it. Taking it those couple of ?s? characters, though, does allow it to compile (with lots of warnings!) and run. I don?t remember if I said that before. > > On Jan 28, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Nicholas Drozd wrote: > ?Do you know for sure that that's what the `s` is? I've seen "short int" mentioned elsewhere, and it's a reasonable guess, but I haven't been able to find any documentation about it. The IOCCC rules from that era stipulate that entries be written in "common C (K&R + common extensions)". What are the "common extensions"? > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:37 AM Andrew Benson wrote: > > Had to switch all the ?1s? to ?1? to make it compile though. I don?t think there?s a C compiler still in existence that accepts that ?s? suffix to indicate a short int. From joe at begriffs.com Fri Jan 31 05:49:01 2020 From: joe at begriffs.com (Joe Nelson) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 23:49:01 -0600 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th Message-ID: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> 6:00, Thursday, Feb 6th 2854 Columbus Ave S. Please reply if you can make it (so we can estimate how much food to buy). A note for the new people on the list -- bring a laptop and some cash to chip in for food. We don't have presentations at these events, it's more about meeting people and working on projects. There are a wide variety of interests, always something new to learn. From noelmiller at protonmail.com Fri Jan 31 08:51:32 2020 From: noelmiller at protonmail.com (Noel Miller) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 08:51:32 +0000 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th In-Reply-To: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> References: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I will likely make it, but I will be there closer to 7:00PM On 1/30/20 11:49 PM, Joe Nelson wrote: > 6:00, Thursday, Feb 6th > 2854 Columbus Ave S. > > Please reply if you can make it (so we can estimate how much food to buy). > > A note for the new people on the list -- bring a laptop and some cash to > chip in for food. We don't have presentations at these events, it's more > about meeting people and working on projects. There are a wide variety > of interests, always something new to learn. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wsBmBAEBCAAQBQJeM+qQCRB8HZRzFg9CAgAKCRB8HZRzFg9CAuU9CAC3fWcV XwPjmgOHjgRh140w3i2N2SI2BX/xNzIW0oHDi6esTiNmEkSoSq9QpmUHpY7h XbayPAT0ZDiKfgdIirLV26mMFdlpKumkpL5k2efV44NOeypd53HChTUlYZ+l vjk56em2RCZH0EIdaQkEg5OrdNGaQHj/MRE+Et6qlJkBNP1BVwIyOOyj3dTN wQe2ifpbcPUtOiQJ2XqD5WHqsZX/bMByGCA/8j0+iZHX9UmADXSZ3NMhhaRc pccD5EQdm+OWNBTQpLMaz2EK9aCsdPc00E7DugztylpljeD/QF+tKJa2pYO0 JTJL2k/5B/OZ5T3AQrXKnMAOycjV3S2lG31v =Q+SI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave at 19a6.net Fri Jan 31 15:17:21 2020 From: dave at 19a6.net (Dave Bucklin) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 09:17:21 -0600 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th In-Reply-To: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> References: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <6C375FFF-FC7A-44AA-A0D9-D00C210BFCC6@19a6.net> On January 30, 2020 11:49:01 PM CST, Joe Nelson wrote: >6:00, Thursday, Feb 6th >2854 Columbus Ave S. > >Please reply if you can make it (so we can estimate how much food to >buy). Count me in. From erikbpanderson at gmail.com Fri Jan 31 17:32:37 2020 From: erikbpanderson at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:32:37 -0600 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th In-Reply-To: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> References: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> Message-ID: >6:00, Thursday, Feb 6th >2854 Columbus Ave S. > >Please reply if you can make it (so we can estimate how much food to >buy). I'll be there! From peter at corbettdigital.net Fri Jan 31 19:13:25 2020 From: peter at corbettdigital.net (Peter Corbett) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:13:25 -0600 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th In-Reply-To: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> References: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> Message-ID: <9d811907-c529-ae61-b874-e3c17c2a5c98@corbettdigital.net> On 1/30/20 23:49, Joe Nelson wrote: > 6:00, Thursday, Feb 6th > 2854 Columbus Ave S. > > Please reply if you can make it (so we can estimate how much food to buy). I'm planning to be there. -- Peter Corbett peter at corbettdigital.net From j3s at c3f.net Fri Jan 31 19:23:48 2020 From: j3s at c3f.net (j3s) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:23:48 -0600 Subject: Next meeting, Feb 6th In-Reply-To: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> References: <20200131054901.s23dkwinysjhtiq7@begriffs.com> Message-ID: I?ll be there.